Curse

Vinraith · Feb 07, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I actually like the game's being mostly lvl 20 content, it becomes less about what level you are and more about how you handle a given situation. I can't even bring myself to play back through Prophecies anymore, the progress rate is painful and things don't really become interesting until you hit the desert. I'd agree with others who've said NF is a pretty reasonable compromise, though I didn't really mind the Factions method either.

Zinger314 · Feb 07, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

I know I'm going to start a flame war (as usual), but...

Guild Wars has no individual character development.

You are able to start a character at max level. Even in prophecies, you can hit max level with 2 days played and not much effort.

In World of Warcraft, however, getting to the maximum level is 50% of the game, as it's very time consuming, and there's a lot to do during that time.

It's Guild Wars' design philosophy. It can't change.

Kakumei · Feb 07, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Guild Wars has no individual character development.

This is why Titles came into existence.

Malice Black · Feb 07, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

I play slowly (when I do play) so slow leveling isn't a problem for me. I feel that being able to level to 20 within 2 days is making the game feel a whole lot shorter.

Zinger314 · Feb 07, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

This is why Titles came into existence.

Do you improve your character through titles? Wow, you deal more damage to Demons and have a better chance of not destroying an item when salvaging.

There is no material character development. Even after your character fights hundreds and hundred of battles...there is no physical reflection on the character itself.

lightblade · Feb 07, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

I don't really understand what you're saying, but...

I really rather be grinding factions than levels.

ValaOfTheFens · Feb 07, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

The low level areas in Factions and Nightfall just fail. They get you to level 20but you're usually ill-equipped and you have to buy most of your skills. *lol* Well, I'm having an easy time of getting my P/W to level 20 and Survivor on Istan. I hope Chp.4 has more skill quests but has a faster pace than Prophecies. Of cource I didn't leave Pre-Searing until level 10.

shadowmist · Feb 07, 2007, 06:04 AM // 06:04

I myself liked the leveling in prophecies... the first time through. Then I really just prefered taking any and all characters to factions first thing I could to level them fast. I wonder if they could find a way to balance between the two opposites...

spellsword · Feb 07, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

On the contrary, I think they should get rid of leveling altogether, just make everyone start at 20. I actually prefer factions fast pace to prophecies.

And concerning faction/sunspear grinding, I didn't have to do any, I got enough faction and sunspear points to advance just playing the game.

freekedoutfish · Feb 07, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

I absolutely agree that lvling up should reflect the prophercies system. It should take longer and feel more rewarding to achieve lvl20, and being lvl20 should be a sign of experience and being a decent player to achieve it.

But unfortunately Anet has completely ballsed it up now.

As another poster said, due to more new people playing Factions and Nightfall they wont know that originally it took you about 3/4 of the game to reach lvl20, gain max armor and max weapons and basically achieve anything.

They certainly wont know what ascension is.

The whole idea of lvl20 has been devalued now.

If we tried to reintroduce long leveling times, the younger players would all cry and winge that it takes too much grinding to level up. When in truth its not grinding, its "earning your level", unlike in factions where its just given to you on a silver platter.

Anet hit the nail on the head with Prophercies, but because all the trigger happy playes complained that it took too long to level up, and they wanted it to get harder faster, they caved in and changed it.

And as another poster said, the last 2 campaigns are now set up to reflect the faster leveling up. The creatures get harder alot faster. But adding harder creatures sooner, doesnt reflect whether a player is good.

The reason is because in factions and nightfall, you get max armor and weapons alot sooner too. So your more then equipped to withstand the damage from those high level creatures.

Thats something else propherices got right. By not giving us max armor and weapons until the desert, we had to fight the ever-increasingly hard creatures using low armor.

It was basically more of a challenge. But the new players now wouldnt accept it, because they want everything fast and done for them.

so yeah...

/signed at somehow bringing back real leveling up.

[side note]

Im not saying factions or nightfall are bad, I like them. Ive actually played more through factions then prophercies. But thats because you get caught up in the fact it takes less effort to attain anything.

Its hard to deny that its nice to just be able to jump right in and get everything fast. But in the long-run I think it was bad thing that Anet scrapped long leveling up because of that effect its had.

Like everythign in life, we sway more towards wanting things done faster, when in actual fact its better if its done slower.

Avarre · Feb 07, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

I always felt that the slower progression at least took a bit of the learning curve out of PvE, for new players. It still didn't take long, and at least let you get better used to your character style and class. Then there was always runs if you wanted a new character quickly.

That gave you some choice to play slow or fast - whereas the Factions system throws you in Level 20 content fairly quickly, without the useful areas like the desert in Prophecies that made you learn concepts.

-Loki- · Feb 07, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

I'm levelling a Prophecies Elementalist right now for PvP, since I hate the visual options for Canthan/Elonian Elementalists. Every time I go play it, I regret it, since levelling is so painfully slow in Prophecies. It's absolutely ridiculous. For a game balanced around level 20 and parties of 8, you spend way too long in Prophecies under level 20 and in groups less than 8. Seeing another campaign following that style would, to me, be absolutely horrible. Not to mention I mainly play my existing characters through new chapters, and only make a character for that chapter when I'm bored. My primary characters would have hardly any fun content if it was done like Prophecies.

BogusDude · Feb 07, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Raising the level cap like that wouldn't work! If you want to show off your experience level then a title would be the way to go. It still wouldn't proove alot, many make chars purely for solo farming, a 55 monk thats barely done more than troll & UW farming with 10mill exp doesn't make them an experienced healer/boon prot so gives a false impression. Similar to the pvp rank system, someone with rank isn't necessarily a good pvp'er rather they have spent sufficient time to gain rank, i've befriended the kurzicks yet haven't gained any of my faction through pvp.

Makkert · Feb 07, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I'll be honest.
I haven't got a clue what the OP now really suggests...

Deleet · Feb 07, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Makkert, me neither.
But some people seem to in favor of more grinding till level 20 or even a higher level.
I'll state the reasons why it's not a good idea:

* Despite popular belief, reaching level 20 takes zero skill, only time. Reaching level 20 would only be skillful, if you couldn't get more experience from the monsters after you kill them once.

* Against the philosophy, Skill > Time spent. It's not unique and used in every other popular RPG game I can think of.

* When you reach max level, the low level content becomes too easy to be played, therefore removing replayability for maxed characters.

freekedoutfish · Feb 07, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

* When you reach max level, the low level content becomes too easy to be played, therefore removing replayability for maxed characters.

Anet added the Titan quests to tackel that issue and what happened?

No one does them anymore. They are the hardest quests in all 3 games in my opinion and the experienced gained is HUGE. But no one does them.

That is a huge insentive to do re-playability in a low-end area, but it doesnt work. If 10k experience a pop isnt enough to incourage people then I think its evidence that people just dont return to low-end areas regardless of low-or-fast leveling.

SotiCoto · Feb 07, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Meh... I've started one character in Prophecies so far and she is still level 7. I regret ever having her leave Pre-Searing Ascalon.... the level-grind is a royal pain in the arse out there, and at least in Pre-Searing there are no death penalties and things are taken nice and easy....

Almost all my other characters are Factions-based.... and honestly I'd have it no other way. Its not as if I have to grind for the levels there. Sure, its fast, but its fast because I do all the quests. I'm sometimes shocked when I see level 16 characters in Nahpui Quarter, wondering how the heck they got so far without levelling higher...

The point I'm getting at is that the one thing I like about Guild Wars above all else is that level isn't everything: Its not how strong you are, but what you do with it. The arsey slow levelling in Prophecies just harks back to that notion that enemies will always get continuously stronger... requiring the character to likewise gain raw strength to continue.... as opposed to the system in Factions which is more based around finding the right build and strategy to take down the enemies in the area. It requires actual thought, rather than stubborn persistance.
Gaming should be more like painting a portrait than painting a fence, afterall.

King's Spectre · Feb 07, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

The slow level up system is much more fun the *first* time through, but gives you little replay value later.

I know I'm going to get 15 diehards posting, but how many people *really* did all the maguma jungle areas after the first time or two through?

The current system allows you to go back through almost the entire game with a lvl20 character and have fun treasure hunting, helping friends, and nabbing skills.

Priest Of Sin · Feb 07, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Well, personally, I started a Tyrian elementalist recently. I got ran to droks for armor and skills, then I started at the beginning. I was doing every quest available, and the ele made it to level 20 before he got to Druid's Overlook. Slow leveling my ass.

Rodhin Kinning · Feb 07, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

I would settle with Chapter 4 having the skills in the quests again. *shrugs* But I do still like Chapter 1 over the other two.